Discussion:
[Koha] Koha and RFID
Keener, Nancy
2014-12-30 18:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?

Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
***@washoecounty.us
Liz Rea
2015-01-07 19:07:27 UTC
Permalink
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list,
so that we can make a FAQ for the website.

Cheers,
Liz Rea
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Jason M. Burds
2015-01-07 23:01:58 UTC
Permalink
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To answer your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.

We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager software that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking in and out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to verify holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it functions most of the time.

Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning, to clear out log files.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have to shuffle items to get them to read.
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your implementation.
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone with a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old windows palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came bad out of the box, 2 months after receiving it.

Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support staff and a programmer David who is excellent.

In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have spent the money and went with them 100%.

Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.

Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229

-----Original Message-----
From: Koha [mailto:koha-***@lists.katipo.co.nz] On Behalf Of Liz Rea
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
To: ***@lists.katipo.co.nz
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID

It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list, so that we can make a FAQ for the website.

Cheers,
Liz Rea
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org ***@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Robin Sheat
2015-01-07 23:19:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason M. Burds
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP
server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every
morning, to clear out log files.
Assuming you mean the Koha SIP service, this shouldn't be the case. If
you like, it'd be good to get a more detailed report on what is going on
here, as if it needs restarting, then it's a bug.
--
Robin Sheat
Catalyst IT Ltd.
✆ +64 4 803 2204
GPG: 5FA7 4B49 1E4D CAA4 4C38 8505 77F5 B724 F871 3BDF

_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
***@lists.katipo.co.nz
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/ma
Chris Cormack
2015-01-07 23:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Sheat
Post by Jason M. Burds
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP
server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every
morning, to clear out log files.
Assuming you mean the Koha SIP service, this shouldn't be the case. If
you like, it'd be good to get a more detailed report on what is going on
here, as if it needs restarting, then it's a bug.
Hi

I think it might be this bug
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13432

Chris
--
Chris Cormack
Catalyst IT Ltd.
+64 4 803 2238
PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand
Brendan Gallagher
2015-01-08 05:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Yes That's the bug.
Post by Chris Cormack
Post by Robin Sheat
Post by Jason M. Burds
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP
server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every
morning, to clear out log files.
Assuming you mean the Koha SIP service, this shouldn't be the case. If
you like, it'd be good to get a more detailed report on what is going on
here, as if it needs restarting, then it's a bug.
Hi
I think it might be this bug
http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13432
Chris
--
Chris Cormack
Catalyst IT Ltd.
+64 4 803 2238
PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brendan A. Gallagher
ByWater Solutions
CEO

Support and Consulting for Open Source Software
Installation, Data Migration, Training, Customization, Hosting
and Complete Support Packages
Headquarters: Santa Barbara, CA - Office: Redding, CT
Phone # (888) 900-8944
http://bywatersolutions.com
***@bywatersolutions.com
Jason M. Burds
2015-01-08 19:02:12 UTC
Permalink
They have a new staff circ program that does multiple items check in and check out.

SIP definitely times out with the new program. We haven't had an issue with the gates timing out.

With the new program, you can checkin/checkout up to 10 items at time, if the pad is strong enough.

Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Sakovich [mailto:***@hmcpl.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 12:52 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Cc: ***@lists.katipo.co.nz
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID

We also use RFID and Bibliotheca, though I will say up front, we are sorely disappointed with Bibliotheca's service. We've had tickets opened for weeks with no activity on them (the latest: they said they were waiting to install a self-check until they found out what ILS we were running. For the record, we've been on Koha for nearly a year, and have 5 branches using their kit already.)

We can only check items in/out one at a time at a staff workstation. The Self Check Kiosks can handle stacks of easily up to 7 items at a time for checkouts.

We are in on a CheckIn page AJAX development ByWater is managing for us that will allow for multiple items on a staff workstation's RFID pad. The recent changes to the CheckOut page AJAX-ifying the process was a big help, though we're still limited to 1 item at a time (but now, much faster).

And the SIP settings on the kiosks and workstations? We bumped the Koha timeouts up to about 5 minutes and have the Bibliotheca kit sending SC messages once every 4-1/2 minutes. Even with well over 60 systems throughout the county, we don't ever have to restart our server except under very unusual and exceptional thrashing...

Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager
Huntsville-Madison County Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To answer your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.
We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager software that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking in and out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to verify holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it functions most of the time.
Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning, to clear out log files.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have to shuffle items to get them to read.
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your implementation.
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone with a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old windows palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came bad out of the box, 2 months after receiving it.
Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support staff and a programmer David who is excellent.
In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have spent the money and went with them 100%.
Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list, so that we can make a FAQ for the website.
Cheers,
Liz Rea
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Jason M. Burds
2015-01-08 20:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Smartstation Circ Manager

Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Sakovich [mailto:***@hmcpl.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 2:19 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Cc: ***@lists.katipo.co.nz
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID

Do you know what the name of this program is? They've not told us a thing about it, but it really sounds like something we might be able to use.

Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager
Huntsville-Madison County Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
They have a new staff circ program that does multiple items check in and check out.
SIP definitely times out with the new program. We haven't had an issue with the gates timing out.
With the new program, you can checkin/checkout up to 10 items at time, if the pad is strong enough.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 12:52 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
We also use RFID and Bibliotheca, though I will say up front, we are sorely disappointed with Bibliotheca's service. We've had tickets opened for weeks with no activity on them (the latest: they said they were waiting to install a self-check until they found out what ILS we were running. For the record, we've been on Koha for nearly a year, and have 5 branches using their kit already.)
We can only check items in/out one at a time at a staff workstation. The Self Check Kiosks can handle stacks of easily up to 7 items at a time for checkouts.
We are in on a CheckIn page AJAX development ByWater is managing for us that will allow for multiple items on a staff workstation's RFID pad. The recent changes to the CheckOut page AJAX-ifying the process was a big help, though we're still limited to 1 item at a time (but now, much faster).
And the SIP settings on the kiosks and workstations? We bumped the Koha timeouts up to about 5 minutes and have the Bibliotheca kit sending SC messages once every 4-1/2 minutes. Even with well over 60 systems throughout the county, we don't ever have to restart our server except under very unusual and exceptional thrashing...
Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager
Huntsville-Madison County Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To answer your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.
We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager software that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking in and out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to verify holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it functions most of the time.
Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning, to clear out log files.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have to shuffle items to get them to read.
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your implementation.
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone with a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old windows palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came bad out of the box, 2 months after receiving it.
Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support staff and a programmer David who is excellent.
In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have spent the money and went with them 100%.
Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list, so that we can make a FAQ for the website.
Cheers,
Liz Rea
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Sebastian Hierl
2015-01-08 21:05:11 UTC
Permalink
We are about to implement RFID with 3M. So far, in test mode, everything is
working well, though we experienced some very long checkout times (Koha
taking a long time to record the checkout of materials).

If anyone implemented RFID with 3M, I would be grateful for any comments or
advice on any issues to watch out for.

Regards,
Sebastian

--
Sebastian Hierl, Ph.D.
Drue Heinz Librarian, Arthur & Janet C. Ross Library
American Academy in Rome
Via Angelo Masina 5
00153 Rome
Italy

T: +39 06 5846 417
F: +39 06 5810 788
Post by Jason M. Burds
Smartstation Circ Manager
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 2:19 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
Do you know what the name of this program is? They've not told us a thing
about it, but it really sounds like something we might be able to use.
Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager
Huntsville-Madison County Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
They have a new staff circ program that does multiple items check in and
check out.
Post by Jason M. Burds
SIP definitely times out with the new program. We haven't had an issue
with the gates timing out.
Post by Jason M. Burds
With the new program, you can checkin/checkout up to 10 items at time,
if the pad is strong enough.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 12:52 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
We also use RFID and Bibliotheca, though I will say up front, we are
sorely disappointed with Bibliotheca's service. We've had tickets opened
for weeks with no activity on them (the latest: they said they were waiting
to install a self-check until they found out what ILS we were running. For
the record, we've been on Koha for nearly a year, and have 5 branches using
their kit already.)
Post by Jason M. Burds
We can only check items in/out one at a time at a staff workstation. The
Self Check Kiosks can handle stacks of easily up to 7 items at a time for
checkouts.
Post by Jason M. Burds
We are in on a CheckIn page AJAX development ByWater is managing for us
that will allow for multiple items on a staff workstation's RFID pad. The
recent changes to the CheckOut page AJAX-ifying the process was a big help,
though we're still limited to 1 item at a time (but now, much faster).
Post by Jason M. Burds
And the SIP settings on the kiosks and workstations? We bumped the Koha
timeouts up to about 5 minutes and have the Bibliotheca kit sending SC
messages once every 4-1/2 minutes. Even with well over 60 systems
throughout the county, we don't ever have to restart our server except
under very unusual and exceptional thrashing...
Post by Jason M. Burds
Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager
Huntsville-Madison County Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To
answer your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager
software that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking
in and out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to
verify holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it
functions most of the time.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP
server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning,
to clear out log files.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have
to shuffle items to get them to read.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to
only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This
may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your
implementation.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone
with a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old
windows palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came
bad out of the box, 2 months after receiving it.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support
staff and a programmer David who is excellent.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on
detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have
spent the money and went with them 100%.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Rea
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the
list, so that we can make a FAQ for the website.
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
Cheers,
Liz Rea
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any
Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality?
And finally, what vendor did you choose?
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Keener, Nancy
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Post by Jason M. Burds
Post by Jason M. Burds
This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Colin Campbell
2015-01-14 12:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sebastian Hierl
If anyone implemented RFID with 3M, I would be grateful for any comments or
advice on any issues to watch out for.
I've done it (not with Koha but with another product) and it was fairly
straightforward.

Colin
--
Colin Campbell
Chief Software Engineer,
PTFS Europe Limited
Content Management and Library Solutions
+44 (0) 800 756 6803 (phone)
+44 (0) 7759 633626 (mobile)
***@ptfs-europe.com
skype: colin_campbell2

http://www.ptfs-europe.com
Dobrica Pavlinušić
2015-01-15 10:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sebastian Hierl
We are about to implement RFID with 3M. So far, in test mode, everything is
working well, though we experienced some very long checkout times (Koha
taking a long time to record the checkout of materials).
If anyone implemented RFID with 3M, I would be grateful for any comments or
advice on any issues to watch out for.
We did implementation of 3M selfchecks in our library 6 years ago
without much problem. Back in those days, we needed to patch a SIP
server little bit, but this is no longer the case.

We are not seeing long checkout times on selfchecks, but checkout
times do vary in our library depending on amount of circulation that
borrower has prior to this checkout. I haven't had time to take a look
with profiler to see why this is happening.

Having said all this, we are no longer using 3M selfcheck software,
mostly because we needed integration with new patron cards which are
mifare compatible and 3M software didn't had support for it. So we
migrated to web-based selfcheck solution which adds additional REST
query to Koha so we can get borrower number from one of unique
identifiers stored in extended attributes in Koha. While this solution
is not generally applicable to other libraries, it might serve as
starting point for somebody else who has similar requirements and want
to have free (as in beer and speech) solution for selfchecks:

https://github.com/dpavlin/Biblio-RFID

Selfcheck software itself is web-based application which we run in
Chrome using it's kiosk mode (it's in examples folder). It does depend
on 3M RFID readers since it also have implementation of RFID driver as
REST server which web-based selfcheck mentioned above users. It also
communicate with Koha using SIP using same protocol as 3M selfchecks,
but it supports same hardware as 3M selfcheck uses, including touch
screen and 3M RFID reader and Omnikey. We are not using barcode reader
or slip printers.

Back in 2011 I had presentation about our RFID implementation at
KohaCon11, so you might find some useful info there also:

http://www.slideshare.net/dpavlin/kohacon11-integrating-koha-with-rfid-system
--
...2share!2flame... http://blog.rot13.org
Scott Kushner
2015-01-08 20:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Check out Tech-Logic at http://www.tech-logic.com

Things have been going pretty well with us, after the bumps were smoothed out a few years ago!

Scott Kushner
Systems Librarian
Middletown Public Library
55 New Monmouth Rd
Middletown, NJ 07748

-----Original Message-----
From: Koha [mailto:koha-***@lists.katipo.co.nz] On Behalf Of Jason M. Burds
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 3:28 PM
To: Aaron Sakovich
Cc: ***@lists.katipo.co.nz
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID

Smartstation Circ Manager

Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Sakovich [mailto:***@hmcpl.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 2:19 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Cc: ***@lists.katipo.co.nz
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID

Do you know what the name of this program is? They've not told us a thing about it, but it really sounds like something we might be able to use.

Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager Huntsville-Madison County Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
They have a new staff circ program that does multiple items check in and check out.
SIP definitely times out with the new program. We haven't had an issue with the gates timing out.
With the new program, you can checkin/checkout up to 10 items at time, if the pad is strong enough.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 12:52 PM
To: Jason M. Burds
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
We also use RFID and Bibliotheca, though I will say up front, we are
sorely disappointed with Bibliotheca's service. We've had tickets
opened for weeks with no activity on them (the latest: they said they
were waiting to install a self-check until they found out what ILS we
were running. For the record, we've been on Koha for nearly a year,
and have 5 branches using their kit already.)
We can only check items in/out one at a time at a staff workstation. The Self Check Kiosks can handle stacks of easily up to 7 items at a time for checkouts.
We are in on a CheckIn page AJAX development ByWater is managing for us that will allow for multiple items on a staff workstation's RFID pad. The recent changes to the CheckOut page AJAX-ifying the process was a big help, though we're still limited to 1 item at a time (but now, much faster).
And the SIP settings on the kiosks and workstations? We bumped the Koha timeouts up to about 5 minutes and have the Bibliotheca kit sending SC messages once every 4-1/2 minutes. Even with well over 60 systems throughout the county, we don't ever have to restart our server except under very unusual and exceptional thrashing...
Aaron
--
Aaron Sakovich
Internet and Technology Services manager Huntsville-Madison County
Public Library
915 Monroe St, Huntsville AL 35801
Post by Jason M. Burds
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To answer your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.
We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager software that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking in and out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to verify holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it functions most of the time.
Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning, to clear out log files.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have to shuffle items to get them to read.
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your implementation.
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone with a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old windows palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came bad out of the box, 2 months after receiving it.
Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support staff and a programmer David who is excellent.
In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have spent the money and went with them 100%.
Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list, so that we can make a FAQ for the website.
Cheers,
Liz Rea
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
This message has been scanned for malware by Websense.
www.websense.com _______________________________________________
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
***@lists.katipo.co.nz
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Lori Ayre
2015-01-15 20:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jason,

You are describing some things that suggest to me you have issues with your
implementation. The limitations you are describing are not common to all
RFID implementations.

1. SIP connections flooding your system: Not typical. Sounds like others
on this thread have some ideas for you. This would be a Koha issue and not
an RFID issue.

2. RFID pads are not powerful and require shuffling: This is a problem
withe product you are using. You didn't state whether you were talking
about the pads used by staff or the ones used in the self-check machines.
If staff, I'd harangue Bibliotheca until they get you some pads you are
happy with. If it's the self-check machines....I have heard from other
Bibliotheca customers that their tabletop units don't have good pads. If
they are unsatisfactory, again, harass your vendor until you are
satisfied. Did you put any kind of performance requirement in your RFP?
That's what I do with clients. That way if items aren't getting read as
promised, it is on the vendor to fix it.

3. DVDs/Stingrays/Bidirectional Gates: This makes no sense. I wonder if
you are not understanding something about how direction gates work. If you
have set up your gates s they only alarm when a patron is ENTERING the
library, then the gates will simply stop alarming unless two conditions
exist: the gates detect someone walking into the library and they also
detect an unchecked out item (which may or may not be associated with the
person who is walking through the gates). Gates detect RFID tags up to 18
inches or so in all directions. All the directionality does is control
whether the alarm will sound or not. And, there are two ways to determine
directionality. One is for the gates to set up two seeing eyes (lasers or
whatever) so that when the laser beam is broken in the right order, the
gates know someone walked in. There's another technology used as well
which uses radar. Anyway, this is probably not the reason your DVDs aren't
being detected. Any discs with metal on one side are simply not doing to
get detected. And if you have more than one Stingray on a set of discs
(e.g. books on CD), they will probably conflict with one another and render
all the tags useless.

4. Now, that conforms with my understanding!

Hope the above info helps.

Lori Ayre
Post by Jason M. Burds
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To answer
your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.
We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager software
that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking in and
out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to verify
holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it functions
most of the time.
Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP
server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning,
to clear out log files.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have to
shuffle items to get them to read.
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to
only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This
may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your
implementation.
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone with
a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old windows
palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came bad out
of the box, 2 months after receiving it.
Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support
staff and a programmer David who is excellent.
In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on
detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have
spent the money and went with them 100%.
Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list,
so that we can make a FAQ for the website.
Cheers,
Liz Rea
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha
libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And
finally, what vendor did you choose?
Post by Keener, Nancy
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Jason M. Burds
2015-01-15 20:51:05 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Lori Ayre
2015-01-15 21:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Interesting. It sounds like they don't have that whole bidirectional thing
going right yet. Thanks for the additional info.
1. We are testing out the changes mentioned.
2. We have TechLogic pads on our self-checks and they are wonderful.
The staff pads are Bibliotheca and are weak.
3. We had the gates setup so they would only alarm when people left
the building. This resulted in 1 out of every 100 items with security
turned on to trigger the alarm. We had to change the gate to alarm when
patrons come in the building and leave the building to get them to detect
and alarm at a 75% rate.
I know it makes no sense at all, but Bibliotheca gave the response that
people were moving too fast to properly trigger the alarm.
Directional alarming has a sensor that triggers the entry. It then checks
the security of the items. The gates are either too slow or we need to
require patrons to walk in slow motion when they leave the building.
When you put on Bidirectional, alarming it disables the sensors and checks
for security first.
Either way it is something to be aware of when dealing with Bibliotheca, and their gates.
*Jason Burds*
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library <http://www.dubuque.lib.ia.us/>
(563)589-4229
*Sent:* Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:36 PM
*To:* Jason M. Burds
*Subject:* Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
Hi Jason,
You are describing some things that suggest to me you have issues with
your implementation. The limitations you are describing are not common to
all RFID implementations.
1. SIP connections flooding your system: Not typical. Sounds like others
on this thread have some ideas for you. This would be a Koha issue and not
an RFID issue.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and require shuffling: This is a problem
withe product you are using. You didn't state whether you were talking
about the pads used by staff or the ones used in the self-check machines.
If staff, I'd harangue Bibliotheca until they get you some pads you are
happy with. If it's the self-check machines....I have heard from other
Bibliotheca customers that their tabletop units don't have good pads. If
they are unsatisfactory, again, harass your vendor until you are
satisfied. Did you put any kind of performance requirement in your RFP?
That's what I do with clients. That way if items aren't getting read as
promised, it is on the vendor to fix it.
3. DVDs/Stingrays/Bidirectional Gates: This makes no sense. I wonder if
you are not understanding something about how direction gates work. If you
have set up your gates s they only alarm when a patron is ENTERING the
library, then the gates will simply stop alarming unless two conditions
exist: the gates detect someone walking into the library and they also
detect an unchecked out item (which may or may not be associated with the
person who is walking through the gates). Gates detect RFID tags up to 18
inches or so in all directions. All the directionality does is control
whether the alarm will sound or not. And, there are two ways to determine
directionality. One is for the gates to set up two seeing eyes (lasers or
whatever) so that when the laser beam is broken in the right order, the
gates know someone walked in. There's another technology used as well
which uses radar. Anyway, this is probably not the reason your DVDs aren't
being detected. Any discs with metal on one side are simply not doing to
get detected. And if you have more than one Stingray on a set of discs
(e.g. books on CD), they will probably conflict with one another and render
all the tags useless.
4. Now, that conforms with my understanding!
Hope the above info helps.
Lori Ayre
We are in the end stages of a long and painful RFID migration. To answer
your question, SIP makes checkouts and check-ins work much faster.
We chose Bibliotheca for our vendor. They do have a Circ manager software
that will connect with SIP and allow for multiple items checking in and
out. Our staff still has to bring up the patrons account in Koha to verify
holds and overdues. There are many bugs with it but overall it functions
most of the time.
Warning about Bibliotheca and Koha
1. SIP connections are tremendous and will eventually lockup your SIP
server with flood messages. We have to restart SIP server every morning,
to clear out log files.
2. RFID pads are not powerful and will disappoint you, expect to have to
shuffle items to get them to read.
3. Gates cannot detect DVD's with Stingray tags when the gate is set to
only alarm on outgoing traffic. You need bidirectional detection. This
may be important on how you tag your collection and how you plan your
implementation.
4. Inventory device needs to run on Windows 7. Good luck with anyone with
a new PC in the last 2 years. OS on inventory device is an old windows
palm OS. We are still waiting for a replacement for one that came bad out
of the box, 2 months after receiving it.
Not to be overly negative about them, they do have a few good support
staff and a programmer David who is excellent.
In addition, we have Tech Logic self-checks that are near perfect on
detection and RFID pads are 50% stronger. Makes me wish we would have
spent the money and went with them 100%.
Good luck and if you have any questions let me know.
Jason Burds
I.T. Supervisor
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
(563)589-4229
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha and RFID
It would be awesome if all replies to this email could come to the list,
so that we can make a FAQ for the website.
Cheers,
Liz Rea
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha
libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And
finally, what vendor did you choose?
Post by Keener, Nancy
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
ea
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Click here
<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/Kn+!3+zy1dvGX2PQPOmvUq6rRgRshdaJ3Br50ciGzrtFPBqjRjjRIBM8JUZ4v+a1oyZpkHRBVgmMQcgptJ50Pg==>
to report this email as spam.
Sudhir Gandotra
2015-01-08 07:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha
libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And
finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
Sure, we have experience with RFID implementation with Koha. There are no
limitations with SIP-II that we noticed.

But yes, with the confusion spread by some vendors as well as the
cheaper-useless Chinese machines, selection becomes tough.

I can surely share our experience with you, helping you reach good
decisions. Who are the vendors available in your area ?

*Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
*Sudhir Gandotra |*
* C. E. O.*
*OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
*Head Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
INDIA*
*Website:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail: ***@openlx.com
<***@openlx.com>*
* <http://openlx.com/> **[image: http://kalculate.com/]
<http://kalculate.com/>* <http://koha.openlx.com/> [image:
http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
*Office: +91-11-2638-5034, **+91-11-2638-5035* |
*Mobile: +91-98101-20918*
*Linux Download
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
<http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
<http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
<Loading Image...>** | OpenLX on FB
<https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>** | Kalculate on FB
<https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*
Scott Kushner
2015-01-07 19:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Yes.

No, there are not too many limitations, imo.

It depends on what you want to do.

RFID programs are usually written to conform to the SIP II standard.

We are using "CIRC-IT" from Tech-Logic.

Scott Kushner
Systems Librarian
Middletown Public Library
55 New Monmouth Rd
Middletown, NJ 07748

-----Original Message-----
From: Koha [mailto:koha-***@lists.katipo.co.nz] On Behalf Of Keener, Nancy
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:04 PM
To: '***@lists.katipo.co.nz'
Subject: [Koha] Koha and RFID

Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And finally, what vendor did you choose?

Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
***@washoecounty.us




_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org ***@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Lori Ayre
2015-01-15 20:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Nancy. SIP2 does limit functionality. That said, it is also a protocol
that most vendors are familiar with so it is the easiest way to get your
self-checks going with RFID.

However, I would like everyone on this thread to pay attention to the
Library Communication Framework (LCF) which incorporates SIP, SIP2, NCIP
and even some ILL protocols and messages and defines a consistent framework
to use to extend beyond the limitations of SIP.

Bibliotheca and 3M are both aware of LCF and have either committed
resources, or promised to commit resources to using it. The idea is to
make it easier for everyone to do the things we need to do without having
to go through all the headaches you are all describing everytime you change
your RFID vendor (or incorporate a new RFID product) or change ILS. By
standardizing on the element names, messages, and what is expected in a
communication, it will make it easier (and cheaper) to enhance
functionality of all self-service functions as well as resource-sharing
functions and other functions that we are only dreaming of (which are not
supported by SIP).

Koha, as an open source product, should be among the ILS products that
support LCF but I have found, to my great disappointment, that the open
source ILS products are not all that good at using even the legacy
standards. Some still don't support NCIP for example.

For LCF to gain any traction, it requires library people to learn about LCF
and put their development money into it and to demand support for LCF in
their procurements (for ILS as well as all things that talk to the ILS). I
ask for it in every procurement I do with a client so it is at least on
everyone's radar.

I think it is incumbent on all Koha developers to at least look into LCF.
Otherwise, Kohacontinues on a track that is unique to Koha and puts
libraries in the position of having to wrangle with their RFID vendors and
possibly other 3P vendors. Going forward, this should not have to happen.
But only if people get on the LCF bandwagon.

This is where information about LCF lives if you'd like to check it out:
http://www.bic.org.uk/114/LCF/

Lori Ayre
Post by Keener, Nancy
Our library is considering RFID in our near future. Are there any Koha
libraries out there using RFID? Does SIP limit RFID functionality? And
finally, what vendor did you choose?
Nancy Keener
Systems Librarian
I.T.O.S.C. Chair
Washoe County Library System
Reno, Nevada
775 327-8347
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Robin Sheat
2015-01-15 22:26:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lori Ayre
I think it is incumbent on all Koha developers to at least look into LCF.
More pedantically, it is incumbent on libraries who want LCF to look
into how they can get support for it developed by Koha developers.
--
Robin Sheat
Catalyst IT Ltd.
✆ +64 4 803 2204
GPG: 5FA7 4B49 1E4D CAA4 4C38 8505 77F5 B724 F871 3BDF

_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
***@lists.katipo.co.nz
http://lists.katip
Lori Ayre
2015-01-19 05:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Agreed!


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lori Bowen Ayre //
Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group
(707) 763-6869 // ***@galecia.com
Availability: http://doodle.com/loriayre

<***@galecia.com>Specializing in software solutions, RFID, filtering,
workflow optimization, and materials handling
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Post by Robin Sheat
Post by Lori Ayre
I think it is incumbent on all Koha developers to at least look into LCF.
More pedantically, it is incumbent on libraries who want LCF to look
into how they can get support for it developed by Koha developers.
--
Robin Sheat
Catalyst IT Ltd.
✆ +64 4 803 2204
GPG: 5FA7 4B49 1E4D CAA4 4C38 8505 77F5 B724 F871 3BDF
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
***@lists.katipo.co.nz
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailma

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...